To join the Thieves Guild in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Remastered, hear about the Gray Fox, then be in the Garden of Dareloth in the Imperial City Waterfront at midnight, where Armand Christophe sets a trial: steal Amantius Allectus’ diary before two rival thieves do. This guide covers the three ways to trigger the meeting, how to win the diary race, the fallback job if you lose, and what membership unlocks, verified against official patch notes.
Three ways to find the Thieves Guild
The guild has no hall and no sign-up desk. The quest Finding the Thieves Guild starts one of three ways, and all three end with the same instruction.
- Go to jail. Get a bounty, let a guard arrest you and serve the time. Soon after release a Dark Elf, Myvryna Arano, finds you with a note about the meeting; per UESP she only searches within Cyrodiil. This route broke at launch: Update 1.1 lists “Finding the Thieves Guild – Fix for NPCs not appearing”, and Update 1.2 fixed a soft lock when a player with a high bounty goes to jail.
- Read a wanted poster. The Imperial City is papered with Gray Fox posters. Reading one adds “The Gray Fox” as a topic; citizens say the beggars are his eyes and ears, and Waterfront beggars give up the meeting once their disposition is high enough. Our guide on how to persuade covers the minigame, and a small bribe also works.
- Talk to City-Swimmer in Bravil. Ask this Argonian about Bravil, ask what the Thieves Guild is, then choose the Gray Fox topic.
Per UESP, once you have heard the topic or read a poster, being in the garden at midnight is enough, though you may need Armand’s disposition a little higher.
The midnight meeting in the Garden of Dareloth
The garden is the yard behind the abandoned shack next to Methredhel’s house in the Waterfront District. Wait until midnight (our guide on how to wait covers the menu on each platform) and three people arrive: Armand Christophe, the local doyen, and your rivals Amusei and Methredhel.
Armand explains the trial, May the Best Thief Win. Amantius Allectus keeps a diary somewhere in the Imperial City, and the first candidate to bring it back gets in. Nobody may kill anyone during the trial, and Armand sells lockpicks on the spot at 5 gold each. Amusei loudly guesses the Elven Gardens District; he is wrong. Per UESP, arriving around 1 AM gives Amantius time to go to bed, and the diary does not exist until the quest begins, so breaking in early gains nothing.
Winning the diary race
Amantius lives on the far east side of the Temple District. Any Imperial City beggar tells you for a five-gold bribe, and Puny Ancus stands directly behind Methredhel’s shack. Methredhel already knows and sprints there when the meeting ends, so fast travel to the Temple District, enter the house and head straight for the desk; beating her to it is usually enough.
If she gets there first, a quest message points out the loophole: neither of you is a member yet, so stealing it from her breaks no rule. She carries the diary to her shack and locks it in a chest. Pickpocket her on the walk home, or wait for her to leave for dinner around 6 PM and pick the chest, because after a noon and a midnight pass she delivers it herself. Our guides on how to pick locks and where to get lockpicks cover the chest.
Return to Armand at midnight with the diary and you are inducted as a Pickpocket. Per UESP the induction adds 2 Infamy in the remaster, up from 1 in the original.
The second chance if you lose
Armand offers a second job with no competition: steal Rohssan’s Antique Cutlass from A Fighting Chance in the Market District. The sword sits in a chest in Rohssan’s private quarters upstairs, guarded by her dog. Sneak past it at night while she sleeps, calm it with an Illusion spell, or break in by day while she tends the counter. Bring the cutlass to Armand and you are in. Killing Amantius or Rohssan during either job triggers a blood price first.
What membership unlocks
- Fences. Ordinary merchants refuse stolen goods. Membership unlocks Ongar the World-Weary in Bruma at once, and higher ranks add Dar Jee in Leyawiin, Luciana Galena in Bravil, Orrin in Anvil and Fathis Ules in the Imperial City. See our guide on how to sell items.
- Doyens. Armand in the Waterfront and S’Krivva in Bravil hand out special jobs and clear a bounty for half its value without confiscating your stolen goods.
- A questline that pays by results. Jobs unlock as you fence stolen goods: the first at 50 gold fenced, then 100, 200 and so on, up to The Ultimate Heist and the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal.
- Rules. Never steal from a member, never kill on a job (the blood price is 1,000 gold), and never rob beggars or the Waterfront poor. Break them and you are suspended until you complete a reinstatement quest.
If you want a guild that pays for killing instead, read our guide on how to join the Dark Brotherhood.
Frequently Asked Questions
What time do I need to be in the Garden of Dareloth? Midnight. Armand and the two candidates arrive then; around 1 AM works as well and gives Amantius time to go to bed.
Do I have to commit a crime to join? No. Going to jail is one route, but reading a Gray Fox wanted poster or talking to City-Swimmer in Bravil starts the same quest without a bounty.
What if Methredhel takes the diary first? Steal it back. She keeps it in a locked chest in her Waterfront shack, and neither of you is a member yet, so it is not a violation.
Where are the rest of the Oblivion guides? Every guide we have for the game is collected on the Elder Scrolls hub.